I had the opportunity to talk with Luminosity Gaming coach Waiffer regarding Stage Two, the infamous microplay system, and his thoughts on the Challenger League format.
Editor’s Note: This is a second attempt at this interview as the first file was corrupted. So if something is previously mentioned, that’s why.
When we had our first interview, you mentioned off the back of a rough few playdays, that there was a rough start, but you were confident that you were going to end the stage strong. Looking back on the stage with your second place finish and your first place overall finish. What are your thoughts on the stage overall?
Well, I think it’s actually not what we want. I mean, if we didn’t throw those two matches that we were up six rounds, and we just had to win one more round. We would have ended up that stage in first place, with a 10 points advantage. I think, if I’m not wrong. I think that’s what we wanted at the start, in the beginning of the stage. We actually had that dream of ending the stage unbeaten. I mean, we threw. I think we had the potential to do it. We had a bad mentality at the beginning of the stage, we had some issues that I think every single team has had. I think the good is that we overcame them, you know, so yeah, we solved all the issues and we ended up as a surprising second place.
You guys won Stage One and finished Stage Two second. And if we look at the standing so far, you guys are up there with a three point lead at 44 points with 1Shot behind you at 41 points.
We hope we would have had, I think a nine point advantage. And if we didn’t throw- I mean there were a few matches we lost, but it was not necessarily a throw like the day or two that we had a sixth round advantage. It was more like those mentalities. You know, at the beginning of the matches, we were extremely like… I mean, it is what it is, it already passed. We were already there. I think in Stage Three we’ll come in strong regardless of the moves or whatever it is going to happen. But I’m very confident for Stage Three.
Talking about roster changes, is there anything you can say about it? Or is that all under wraps until Stage Three starts?
Well, I don’t know, to be honest. The only thing that I can really say is: we’re 100% making one move. Like, 100% we’re making one move. We may end up making a few moves. So that’s, I think that’s the only thing that I can really say. I don’t want to spoil anything.
There’s already one player out. But I mean, we’re still on that trial phase. We’re taking our time, we have plenty of time to do it. So we want to do everything well. So we’re taking our time. We haven’t defined who else is leaving or who else who’s joining us or stuff like that. We’re still figuring out. We’re taking your time, we’re taking those steps. So I mean, regardless of that change, I still think we’re pretty strong. I still think I still see us as the ones winning CL.
I think that is a fair assessment of it because you kind of showed with your roster change from Stage One to Stage Two. That you guys could kind of have that structure and have that consistency, whether or not you had a new player or anything like that you guys adapted to that relatively well and finished strong despite a few rough start.
Well I don’t want to throw flowers on myself. But I think we had that clear advantage over some teams that even had Pro League players. For example, you’d see like the top four, the top five even. Every single roster has at least one player that has been in Pro League or something like that. For example, Aqualix, they had one in Stage One. They have Beastly, he used to be in Pro League. We don’t have any player that has been in Pro League, but what we do have is myself and the pieces that we already have. I think that gave us more structure, and a more solid plan and everything so we can adapt, and we can overcome old issues that might have been in the way. So I think we have that advantage against Challenger League teams. I mean, I don’t want to throw flowers at myself, but I think we are doing good work right now.
I think you guys are making a good rapport of yourselves. And I think acknowledging when you do good work is fair.
If you see, actually, for example, on Stage One, We did one player move that was Splash for Azian.But in reality, in the team we made two role changes.
Wasn’t it Silent to more of an entry position? I might be getting it crossed.
It was basically like Silent as a first entry. Because it used to be Ferda. Ferda we moved to a flex support, kind of intermid. We put Azian in second entry, Silent on first entry, Ferda on internamid. Eddy and Kix were the only ones that actually stayed the same with the roles, so in reality we made three moves overall. In Stage Two it was like, we’re at the beginning. Also we had some troubles with the mentality, I mean, we already learned. And in Stage Three, we’re doing something similar. We just bought, like, we tried to do like, a little bit less on the role changes.
Some people think it’s just like gunning and shit, or run and pew-pew basically. And they say like, it’s a 50/50 [gunfight], but I mean, we’re first place for something. So I don’t think it’s a 50/50 playstyle, you know?
People underestimate how impactful role changes can be for players to get their feet under them again. Because that can take a while to get situated in some cases.
Well, I think that the advantage on that, like the role swaps and all that stuff. It’s like, the way we manage it in the team, right, and the way we play in CL, it’s kind of flexible. We have the players, they have the gun power. That is the first thing needed for our playstyle, you know. Some people think it’s just like gunning and shit, or run and pew-pew basically. And they say like, it’s a 50/50 [gunfight], but I mean, we’re first place for something. So I don’t think it’s a 50/50 playstyle, you know? So that actually helps us. For example, when a player comes and changes roles because we need to. He’s pretty likely to do well, because of how we play, and how we do it as a team basically.
Talking about how you guys play, this is going to be a rehash. Just warning you now, the microsystem. Because it’s such a big talking point about this team and of your coaching style.
Well, I don’t think it’s something around my coaching style, right? Well, yes, its from my coaching point, but I think it’s more like I’m using the tools that my players have. My players might not be the most experienced, my players might not be this or that. But everyone right there knows how to play the game. So on the microsystem, what you do is basically, whenever you see a gap, you take it.
So I think that’s why people think we’re playing crazy, we have no plan or something like that. But in reality we plan situations, we plan everything. But at the end of the day, if the enemy team leaves us a gap, the players are trained and they already know how to execute depending on those gaps that they see. So that’s the microsystem, it’s kind of like what Astralis did in the first stage. So I think it works pretty well, for now, it works pretty well. If we ended up getting in Pro League, I mean, now Pro League is played differently so we will have to reanalyze if that play style works or not. But at least for now, since we are in CL, we’re not in Pro League. I think that’s our first system and a good system right now. Or play style, however you want to call it
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Especially if it’s working so well, because you guys are at the top of the [overall] standings.
Yeah. I mean, it’s mainly because I have received comments from people in Pro League that my system or the system we play in is dumb or something like that. But as I said, it doesn’t seem dumb, because we’re first place. And we are not in Pro League. We are in CL, and for CL it’s working. That’s it. That’s the only thing that matters.
…if the enemy team leaves us a gap, the players are trained and they already know how to execute depending on those gaps that they see.
Now that Attacker Repick has been out for a while you’ve had one and a half stages with it, maybe two whole stages. What are your thoughts on Attacker Repick?
I think it’s actually good for us, especially with the micro-play system. Because as I told you, players can just adapt and do whatever they want. So it’s good for the system. It’s what the game is right now. Some Pro League teams are struggling, because they play step by step. They have everything planned, they want to play the old Siege. but in reality, that’s not the game right now. So that’s why you see new teams coming up, new players coming up, because they have that mentality. They don’t have the mentality of the old Rainbow Six. So yeah, I think it’s actually pretty strong for teams like us that whenever they see something, they just adapt. I think it’s actually pretty strong, if you know how to use it, basically.
Regarding Azami, she’s a very powerful operator, obviously, but I’ve seen some really interesting stuff out of your guys’ use of the operator, particularly, what are your thoughts on her?
I know last time, I might’ve had a different opinion, because it was kind of like a week competing [with Azami]. But right now my opinion is, I don’t think she’s like a broken op, if you don’t know how to use it well. Because people just waste it [the Kiba barriers] without the sense or something like that. As I told you, we plan how to use things depending on execution. I think it’s a really, really strong and theoretical period, where if you actually know when to use it, and how to use it. But if you’re used to using it for wasting time without any kind of plan maybe, or any idea of how to play around, it’s not that great. Because in reality she just makes the attacking team uncomfortable. But at the end, when they execute comes or something like that, maybe you won’t have utility because you use it in another room. And that’s how I have seen some teams in Pro League using it. Of course depending on the map, for example Oregon basement, you are likely to use at least two or three on the site. But maybe on a map like Bank, you are not using anything on the bomb site, you’re using them on a room. So I think it depends on how you use them.
So it’s a very flexible gadget, but because of that, it can be really powerful or really useless, just depending on how well you plan it out.
Basically.
But as of the current understanding, relegations are gone, there’s no way to move up from Challenger League into Pro League. Is there a worry that players will start playing for stats or looking good over winning individually? Overall, not necessarily just your team but just in general within Challenger League?
Well, I think players in Challenger League basically do that, and that’s why their team sucks. Because they try to play for stats and they don’t give a shit about the team you. Excuse me the words. The announcement of Ubisoft itself was more like “Yo guys, we might remove relegations or we might not” so there’s no official statement right now. If you have been in the game for enough time, you might know Ubisoft just changes its mind whenever it wants. Something that here right now might not be you might not be there and stuff like that.
So I mean, we’re [Luminosity] still solid. Even if the announcement comes tomorrow like, “Yo, there’s no relegations,” I don’t think nobody of our boys are going to try to play for stats. Because at the end of the day, you are going to see yourself better if you’re playing for the team and not for stats. So that’s that’s like, kind of like the mentality that we have since Stage One. If you’re going to be in Pro League it’s because you’re doing your role well, not because you’re playing for stats. Because pro teams in reality, they don’t care about the stats. They just care about how you’re doing.
What are your thoughts on the Challenger League format in general? The one round robin, best of one, two play days a week sometimes. What are your thoughts on the format overall?
Well, maybe there’s options to improve it. Maybe in the rules format. For example we get two transfers per Stage, or something like that. Maybe it can improve because sometimes players go to Pro League, and that counts as a move. So maybe in the ruling, it can improve. On the system itself, I think it’s really fair, because you’re rewarding the most consistent teams over the year. For example, you see the standings, from Stage One to Stage Two, they actually changed. The only teams that are still there are us and 1Shot because we were consistent. That’s the thing, if you see like, Arial Arise passed from being 4th place to I think they’re like 8th place. So, it’s a good system in my opinion. Maybe with the Bo1s and all that stuff, maybe, it can be a Bo3 or maybe something like that. But I think it’s pretty fair right now, at least, its more fair than last year, at least.
I know, it’s kind of unpopular from the player’s perspective, but as a coach, what are your thoughts on Best of Twos? Because I know, that was used for a while and then it wasn’t. What are your thoughts on Bo2s, if Bo3s were to take too much time?
I don’t actually dislike Bo2s because you can get a tie. So I think that’s pretty good and fair. I mean, if it is there, nice. If it’s not, the same. I don’t have a particular opinion. I think the system right now is actually pretty preferred, you know, because, like, for example, if you do Bo2 or Bo3 or something like that, you have to prepare for more matches and all that stuff. And I’m not saying that it’s bad or wrong, but the reality is not every single team in Challenger League is getting money out of this. That’s another thing. You have to see the economic powers of like, every single one of the Challenger League teams. Maybe a mid-low team, they’re just playing for stats to get picked up by a better team or a salaried team. So I think the system is fair right now.
The reality is not every single team in Challenger League is getting money out of this.
I actually never really thought about the economic angle of it, because we always kind of go “Of course you want to devote your time to Challenger League.” But for some of these teams and players you aren’t getting money, you still have to pay the bills and go to work before coming home and doing your streams and playing your matches. So that’s a really, really good point that I never actually considered.
Yeah, I mean, the issue with Bo3s and Bo2s is you actually have to put in more time. For example, people think on Luminosity we don’t have a full map pool, but in reality its like we do. We just try to play the same map to not expose anything on our maps. But it’s because we’re getting paid from it, from Luminosity. We’re getting that economic help. But maybe a team like Karn&co., maybe they can put like eight hours per day to have everything down.
Touching on the map pool actually. Is there anything else? What are your thoughts on the map pool? Any good ones or bad ones that really need to get axed?
I actually like it. I I think it’s pretty good right now, the map pool. To be honest, I have no complaints about anything. To be different, maybe getting rid of Clubhouse or getting rid of, like one of the maps that always gets played or something like that. But at the end of the day, that’s getting rid of the classic maps. So you don’t want to actually get rid of those. So I think it’s good right now. I think it’s good.
To close up the interview, is there anything you want to say? Or like, like, anything you want to say to anyone or whatever, take the stand.
I mean, to be honest, no. Just like thank you for everyone and thanks to you for the interview. We’re just gonna keep it up, regardless of what happens to CL, Regardless of the Luminosity name, or regardless of everything. We’re just gonna give the best of ourselves. We’re gonna keep doing it how we are doing it. I mean, thanks for the ones that are supporting.