After Challenger League Playday 1 I talked with Crow about his start in esports, first impressions of the CL Stage, In Game Leading, and more
All right, so the first place I like to start with these interviews, especially when it comes to a talent, how did you get your start in esports and how did you get your start with like Siege and casting? It’s very straightforward when it comes to players, “I played the video game a lot and when I found a way to compete more,” but for talent, it’s a little bit of a different journey, right?
It was complete random chance. So I have been playing Siege since it came out on Xbox. Actually, that’s not true. I’ve been playing Siege since a month after it came out. So January of 2016. And I watched Pro League ever since it started. So I’ve always wanted to get into casting because I thought it’d be fun. Because there’s no way in hell I was gonna be a player. So I always thought casting was fun.
So I used to date a girl in the army, and it was while I was down there visiting her. So every day, they would go out and do like, whatever the hell the army does, I don’t know, drills and shit. And, I would wait for her to come home in the dorm. She had a gaming laptop, and I just logged on to my Siege account and I’d be playing while she was gone. One day while she was gone, it was when new Kafe came out, well, not new anymore. It’s when the Kafe rework came out, and I was in a discovery queue for Kafe. I just started shooting the shit with someone in the match. And they were like, “Damn, you kind of know your Siege esports stuff. You want to try casting?” I was like, “Oh, yeah, sure. That sounds cool.” And he turned out to be an admin for ESA. Because at the time, ESA was like the biggest T3 league barring CCS. Yes, it’s kind of fallen off now. In NA, I don’t think they exist anymore. But at the time, they were pretty big. They were pretty damn big. So I started just casting with him. One of my earliest casting partners was Jazzman. We did the final between Bittersweet and someone else, it was when like P3NGU1N was still playing for Bittersweet.
That’s a call back, dude. Oh, yeah, it was forever ago.
It was like three or four years ago. I think it was Bittersweet vs Grizzlies or no, bittersweet. Bittersweet vs Nobu. So it was when Nobu was still playing with like matrOska. So that was one of my very first castling experiences I guess. Brand new fucking caster, slapped me on the highest tier League in ESA and slap me on the finals. So that was a bit of a trial by fire. I stuck with ESA for a while. And then through ESA, I did part of AGN Season One and then stopped because I was just doing too much. And I did RSA Season One before RSA had to shut down and from there I just kept hopping from T3 league to T3 league and gaining notoriety until I landed a spot with CCS. And then…actually I can’t remember if I joined Challenger League before after CCS but one of them came first.
That’s a very interesting journey because I’ve been talking to some of the other casters in CL, Fellow and Lynx, like they kind of mentioned how the pandemic kick started their casting journey. But hearing you someone who’s been around, like since year one is what and like been casting for much, much longer, since before 2020. It’s very interesting to hear that perspective.
Yeah, currently out of the crew in Challenger League. The only one who’s been doing it for longer than me is, actually, I don’t know. I think the only one who’s been doing it for longer than me is CookieZ. I’m pretty sure he started doing T3 right before I did. Because I started doing T3 after his team got relegated and he semi kind of retired.
Wild. Talking about Challenger League specifically, on the topic of relegations and whatnot. Ex-Elyssar (now Investigation File) barely survived. I don’t know if barely survived is the right word, I wasn’t entirely paying attention to match so I can’t say for sure.
Well, yeah barely survived in the sense that I think it went to three maps.
It wasn’t the cleanest win. But Ex-Elyssar stayed above water during Challenger League relegations for Stage 3. They’ve brought in some new players to replace talent leaving for greener pastures. What are your expectations for this roster in Stage 3, especially given that we’ve had a playday to kind of get some sense of where they’re at?
Yeah, and in that playday they kind of got smoked didn’t they? Actually, that’s not fair. I shouldn’t say they got smoked. They had plenty of opportunities to- I don’t know about win, but they had plenty of opportunities to play a really close game against RealityTV. They just kept getting clutched on by, like, Gavin. Gavin aced. I think there were other multiple 2vXs that RealityTV was winning.
I think it was back to back 2v4. Gaven 3 or 4k’d one of them and aced the other. Like he really did just pop off.
Yes, there were a shit ton of clutch attempts that stopped iF from playing a close game. I think RealityTV would have probably won it in the end anyway. But if they can’t stop that clutch factor from happening, then I don’t think they have a chance to make, what do you call it? The playoffs. Because at this point, right they’re in there at 6th. They’re 7 whole points behind Arial Arise. And if they want to make it into the final stage playoffs, they need to make up a nine point gap with Aqualix. So I just don’t think they’re making it. But I think they’ll be better.
I think Playday 1 and them getting clutched on so many times might just be a symptom of new teammates, missed comms, and stuff like that. But I do like the players that they brought in. I love Seezy. I’ve always thought Seezy was a pretty good player if he’s enabled. Focal when he was subbing for Inryo actually surprised me. He did a lot better than I thought he would and a lot better than he did in the relegation game. Phish…I don’t know. I’ve never really seen Phish play like- Well, that’s not fair to say because he’s tried, he’s tried playing seriously. It’s just Phish, when he tries playing seriously, I think is worse than when he’s just running and trying to kill people.
Do you think that’s just a mentality thing? Because he starts getting in his own head and the pressure gets to him or do you think that’s just because of growing pains and he’s not used to, not necessarily trying, but really going hard at trying to succeed in a competitive environment?
I really don’t know because his early T3 teams like with Brazilians from the Favelas. That was him, Kyno, Yoggah, Kroloka, Gomez and Dias. They were like that was their MO was run around and kill people. And Phish, who’s you know, he’s a ranked player. Or more of a ranked player than a comp player still. I think that just leans into into how he likes to play. He is trying to make the transition I think, and I think he can. He’s just got to bridge the gap. Basically. It’s just I think it’s just going to take time.
Are there any pickups from like this past stage or two that have really stuck out to you? Or that you have really high expectations for? Because Challenger League lost a lot of veteran talent this Stage to the NAL and there’s a lot of new people and new names to kind of fill in the gaps.
Yeah. If P3NGU1N doesn’t lead Aqualix to at least 2nd place this Stage I’m gonna be really disappointed in him. First of all, because I love Keegan and I think it’d be really funny if he won Challenger League again. but I think Hat, Hat has a lot to prove because he did okay last stage. Like last Stage he would either be a dominant force on the map or a traffic cone. So if Hat can get a little more consistent on Aqualix, I think they’ll be really good.
I’m looking at Tonez as a big pickup for Arial Arise. I expect Ryce to keep doing good things for Luminosity concerning how clutch he was for Vipers. Ryce has always been a standout player, Gity joining RealityTV I think is is massive, because it gives another big leadership voice along with Mr.B. And again, I’m looking towards Tristan, who didn’t have the best breakout game, because that was again, that was kind of the Gavin show. Hopefully, Tristan steps it up later in this Stage. Vipers picking up Poison, I think is a good move because Poison is obviously one of the best IGLs in T2. Unemployment. I still don’t know what to think about. Because as much as I love Karnageb, I still think it’s a bit of a leadership issue. I don’t know if Tra or Briyohs are gonna change anything. Favelas, they’re not scrimming, don’t care. And then iF, I just hope Seezy does better. I like Seezy.
And then I guess that leaves, 1Shot didn’t make any roster changes. So they’re kind of in the same place they were last Stage, which is top contender.
And they look good.
So I kind of want to wrap back around to Vipers real quick, because you mentioned how Poison one of the best IGLs and T2 right now. Is there any worry that there’s going to be clashes between Poison and Filthy or any of these other players? Because Filthy and Creators have both been on T1 teams and obviously, that brings a lot of experience. Is there a worry that a situation could arise where it’s like, “I was a T1 player” or like “I know about T1, I’m more experienced? I’m not going to listen to your calls” or do you think that’s not going to be an issue with these players in this team?
No. I don’t think so. First of all, Filthy has already been in T2, he knows about the T2 grind. Right? When he was with Pogchamp. So he’s been in this situation before. I think him and Poison are going to be able to divvy up that IGL role. Probably, I imagine it’s probably like Poison more IGL and Filthy more the shot call. And then Creators, I don’t think Creators has ever really been in an IGL position. I think he helped with some shot calling on pB, but otherwise. I mean, you got to realize you know, you’re not in Tier 1 anymore. You have the T1 experience, but you know, you’re down in T2 you’re not on an even playing field. You’re not better than any of the rest of these guys. At least not until you remake the league. And I haven’t heard any ego problems with Creators. From what I’ve heard about creators is that he’s like, he’s a pretty chill guy. So I’m not worried about.
I don’t want to imply any of them have egos because I have no idea either way, but it’s because I don’t know anything. I can’t assume that they’re nice guys or like, got super big egos. So I was just kind of curious. You mentioned it briefly there when talking about Filthy and Poison working together, but in your eyes, what is the difference between an IGL and a shot caller?
Shot caller is the macro, IGL is the micro. So an IGL might be the guy that’s going to call maybe specific operator selections, specific mid round adaptations or like the “Hey, you go here, you go here, you use your utility here, blah, blah, blah.” Whereas the shot caller is going to be dictating the overall strategy. Once the drones go in and see what the defense is doing, the shot caller is going to be like, “Alright guys, we’re doing a master over” or like “Alright, hey, we’re doing study over” or “Hey, we’re going to do 2 study, 3 master.” I’m using Villa as an example. So for me, the shot caller is more the overall take on the attack, or the overall setup on the defense or as the IGL is doing more of the adaptations and micromanagement.
So it’s like the shot caller when you’re in the round, that’s the guy to listen to. In between rounds and when it comes to tactical decisions and all that stuff, that’s more when you turn to the IGL and say, “Hey, how are we adapting? What’s the read here?”
Yes, and No, because the IGL still has an important voice in the mid round, right? Because like, let’s say you’re setting up for the execute. I think usually the IGL is the guy who’s going to dictate how you’re burning utility, the pace at which the execute is going. Typically, the IGL is your support player a lot of the time, so he’s gonna be dictating when the execute happens, stuff like that.
I’m always curious to hear that kind of the thought process of various people when it comes to the IGL and that leadership position in teams because it’s one area of the game that I don’t think is, not underrepresented, but not openly discussed as much as other roles. Obviously, with entry players it’s always very obvious for impact and like the value that they bring, but when it comes to being a shot caller, how do you differentiate being an IGL, a shot caller, and their effectiveness when you’re on a hard support role? Where half half your value doesn’t come from your gun but it comes from the calls you give, the droning you do, the coordination you set up. So it’s always very interesting hearing various people’s interpretation of the role.
That’s my interpretation of the roles. But of course, you know, every team can also be completely different. Like they can have their shot caller on this or they can have their IGL on Flex. There are people who IGL from entry. So every team has their own little niche when it comes to whatever works for them. But I do think it’s important that as an IGL or shot caller, you should probably be able to do both at least at a fundamentally competent level.
Do you think that Challenger League as it is right now is at a stage where you need to have one? Either a shot caller or an In Game Leader in order to succeed or do you think that the league is still at a point where you can kind of pug it out if you’re really just skilled enough?
Well, you can kind of do that and the NAL, like look at Xset right?
Fair enough.
They don’t have they don’t have a real, classical IGL because the days of that are, they’re not over, but they’re not completely necessary. It all just depends on how the team plays. Plus with this meta we’re in right now with how aggressive it is, especially at the Challenger League level, people tend to value your individual game sense and ability to take smart fights and win them and have good good aim above most things. Which is why a lot of these guys like Mr.B and Poison have really had to step up their game mechanically. Because you can’t just be that hard support IGL and go 1-10 anymore. You got to be able to hold your own in a gunfight because Poison and Mr.B, like people used to make fun of them in T3 for how terrible they were mechanically. But I’ve really, really been impressed with them, you know, Vivid, even like Beastly. All the supports in CL have really, really stepped up in terms of fragging.
I want to transition into your thoughts on some game balance and operator balance stuff. We’ve got three very interesting and unique operators released this past year. Which I think has been very interesting, because they’re somewhere along the spectrum of overpowered to underpowered. So the impact Azami has had is kind of obvious, but what are your thoughts on Sens because we’ve seen them in play a little bit, but not to a super high degree. And yeah, they’ve been kind of effective. Where do you rate Sens?
I think Sens is in a place kind of like a Glaz or a Monty. Like if you’re bringing a Sens it’s because it’s a Sens strat, right? You’re gonna have to set up for that Sens and pretty much Sens is always going to be focused on the execute, right? Cutting off those lines of sight, allowing people to walk through, even sometimes we’ve seen him [get used] like an Osa, try to enable a Glaz, stuff like that. But in this day, and age, you really got to have a solid roam clear before you even transition to the execute. And sometimes, you know, there’s really no point in taking a Sens when you can just take an Osa with smokes or a Capitaõ or a Ying with smokes. So, Sens I think has a place if you play them right, but there’s not there’s not enough going for them, where you can consistently justify bringing Sens over someone else just with smokes, because you just get it you get additional utility for basically the same effect.
Okay, in that same vein, what are your thoughts on Grim now that they’ve been out for a while?
He fucking sucks.
All right
I don’t see the point in Grim. Because the whole idea behind Grim, right? So first of all, the bugs like yeah, it’s annoying, but they don’t really visually impair you, right? You can still see, you can still aim and shoot. It’s not like a concussion or an Echo blast where your vision is physically disoriented. You can still see. And they run out, they’re not like a Nomad. So he’s not going to be useful on flank watch. There’s just no way he’s gonna be used for flank watch. So if you try to put him on a flex role, I mean, there’s no destruction to be had. So the only real option left is almost like a pseudo entry. Kind of like how people use a Jackal as an entry or a Lion as an entry. But with the range at which you use Grim’s thing, and because the range on the actual gadget in detecting someone is so minuscule, you almost have to already know where they are to shoot the gadget at them. And at that point, just bring a jackal and have a better gun and smokes. Plus the ping doesn’t last as long as Jackal’s does even though it’s the same ping. I don’t see much point to him.
Do you think that he’s good or at least passable as a or as an execute op in any way? Or is that also a no go?
I mean, like maybe you could use his bees to like cut off temporarily cut off rotations or just like fire them repeatedly out to cut off a rotation during an execute. But again, at the same time you could just bring Capitaõ for the same purpose and then also have smokes. I feel like there’s not a lot of point to Grim on an entry because by the time you’re in range to use him, anyone else is going to be better. You just take Jackal, or just have a drone. Or at the end like if you were to use him for an execute, just the things you would use him for, I think other people just already do better.
Okay, so you touched on Grim as a flanking up but obviously he doesn’t seem that effective in that position. There seems to have been this gradual perception that flank watch as a role isn’t as necessary anymore. You don’t need dedicated flank watch players, you don’t need dedicated flank watch utility anymore. Where are you on this? Is this a permanent change? Is it just some kind of ebb and flow of the meta What do you think about this?
I think that still varies from team to team. Because even if teams are good, Nomad still has a lot of use on certain maps, which is why you’ll still see her played on, I’m trying to think I’m blanking on the map pool. Like you’ll still see her played sometimes on Villa, you’ll still see her played a lot on Kafe, sometimes on Oregon, even sometimes on Theme. So she still has a place on a lot of maps. But even if she’s not being brought, I think most teams still have a dedicated cam guy. It’s just that most of the time with the way the meta is, by the time you’re done with the roam clear, you’ve usually lost at least 1 person. And that guy is now your cam guy. Because they’re dead. So I think the role still exists, obviously, again, varies from team to team. Some teams might have a harder flank watch role. Other teams might just be kind of like whoever happens to be playing it in this round or on this map. But I think there is still a flank watch role. I think it’s definitely really the operators that the flank watch is playing are definitely map dependent. Kind of like how right like on Coastline you’d see Lion a lot. Like we see Lion a lot on like Chalet and Villa. Whereas right on like a Kafe it’s more Nomad, even Gridlock sometimes.Stuff like that, but most of the time by the time flank watch is useful you’ve already got someone dead
So it’s not as if a Role has disappeared it’s more just it’s been changed to fit with this much faster paced and much more explosive meta.
Yep. Because you think about it, a lot of teams are still bringing even, what did we see from the last Challenger League Playday? I think it was 1Shot were bringing Zero a lot on Chalet. That’s still the flank watch. Because they still got they’ve still got that Zero and you know, someone dies, bam. Now they’re the guy watching all those cams. So I think the role still exists, because it’s still up to someone to set up those cams and set up that utility. It is not necessarily going to be them that’s watching it.
We can close out on just the Major because that was a big deal for Europe, obviously, but also NA. Our home region where we kind of shit the bed for lack of a better term. What do you think happened to NA this event?
I don’t know. I don’t know, we just sucked. I don’t even know what the hell happened. Well, let me look at the standings again, real quick. Where was it? Berlin? Right, our highest place. So I mean, even if you just look at the trend, right? First of all, this was Astralis’ very, very, very first LAN event. So I don’t blame them for going out. You look at Soniqs..
Oh, that’s true. That was their [Astralis] first truly international event, they weren’t on home soil. I’m picking up what you’re putting down.
So you know, and then you look at Soniqs and an OXG. You know,
They were kind of dead teams going in.
Yeah, they do play like fluid and aggressive. But I don’t think that they play it as well as Xset does. Which is why Xset was up there with like, you know, Rogue and the LATAM teams. Again, people are always like, “Oh, LATAM play style. LATAM play style.” like, first of all, shut the hell up. 2, They didn’t, well, I don’t know. I wouldn’t say they invented it. But they [LATAM] definitely pioneered that more aggressive style. But it’s not like it’s LATAM play style, it’s just you’re more fluid, you’re more aggressive. You look for the fights on the roam instead of trying to force the players back. Because, you know, why not get the man advantage?
I think Xset just plays that really fluid style really well because of who they are. And again, it’s down to the fact too that they don’t have a solid IGL. Sure Spiritz might be like the main shot caller, but everyone on that team has a voice. And everyone on that team that you know, not to say other teams don’t, but everyone on that team will talk and everyone on that team, you know, can win their ones. I guess. So I think that Xset just plays the style that this meta is leaning towards better than the other NA teams did at this event. And NA teams just kind of shit the bed.
Do you think there’s any issues because like, OXG has always been an international contender in the sense that they like are consistently going to these international events, like these Majors, Six Invitationals, even back since they were Reciprocity and even Cloud9. But do you think that they’re style just has the domestic success but doesn’t necessarily always translate the best to international play? Do you think there’s some issue with some of the NA teams having playstyles at work domestically, and then just do not translate to the international stage as well?
I mean, that can be true for every team that comes in, you know, first second in their region and then gets destroyed internationally. I mean, look at APAC, right? Like APAC has their own style that works against each other because they’re all playing that style. And then they get dogged on internationally which they, to their credit, they haven’t been recently.
Yeah. Damwon and Elevate have been doing pretty respectably.
I was gonna say that I don’t know when Damwon just decided to suck.
Yeah. It was rough. I was hoping they’d go to another playoffs or Elevate would carry the torch for them. Because Elevate’s been, what Elevate has kept on qualifying but they weren’t able to actually go because of Visa problems. Right?
Charlotte? Yeah.
So, yeah. So they’ve been on the horizon of, “watch out for the APAC teams,” and now they finally showed up and did work. I definitely think you’re right that you know, these like regional styles do find some success and then kind of fall off internationally if you’re not ready for it.
I do think though, it’s becoming less and less, right? Like it really used to be, which region’s style of play was going to trump the others. But I think it’s become less and less and less of that, as the game has progressed. You think about the first and second Invitationals, right? Like, it was always Oh, NA versus EU, which region is better? Now I think it’s come down to each individual team. The region still have their play styles, and it’s still going to be a clash of play styles at every international event, but I think it’s starting to, to become less of that.
To kind of close out this interview, do you have anything to say to readers?
No.